HIP THERAPY MUSIC

Chip Kinman has covered a lot of  musical territory. In 1977 North County San Diego, he and brother Tony, along with drummer Endre Algover, formed the Dils, an influential mainstay of the west-coast scene, whose politically charged lyrics continue to affect punk rock. Seeking change, in 1981 the brothers brought their we-don’t-need-no-stinking-rules attitude to their genre-bending and critically praised country-roots-rock outfit Rank and File. A noise band, a children’s album and even a blues/glam band would follow in his ever-restless journey.

As of late 2022, his new album, The Great Confrontation on In The Red Records, is a full-bodied embrace of yet again something new: electronic music. This two-disk set challenges everything you know about what “popular” music ought to be. It is bold, daring and fully original. 

Chip spent time with Hip Therapy Music in early November while preparing to leave for Mojo Nixon’s Outlaw Country West Cruise, a stellar, sea-going reunion of some of the biggest names from California’s punk, cowpunk and country rock stages. Chip will perform with a variety of headlining bands, including The Long Ryders and Rosie Flores. 

Here in part three, the final installment of this series, he shares his favorite way to find new music, his quest for electronic music gear, his “secret” classical inspiration, and how his brother Tony showed him the way to “the greatest album ever made.” Plus, there’s talk of… a book?

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HIP THERAPY MUSIC: I might be mistaken, but weren’t some of the synthesizers you were using either original to the 70s or reproductions of stuff from the 70s? Were you going completely old school? 

CHIP KINMAN: The main synth I used on that album was a Moog MuSonic, which was something they made even before the Mini Moog. I was going to buy it with my recording budget. I thought, well, I’ll buy a Mini Moog, make a record on that.

And I went to my friend Brian Kehew. Do you know him? He’s got a recording studio just right over in North Hollywood. He’s a big synth guy. He works on synths for the Who and that sort of thing. And I didn’t want to have to buy a bunch of cords and headphones and that kind of stuff. So I went to his place to see if I could borrow some.

And I mentioned to him I was going to buy a Minimoog. And he said, “Oh, don’t do that here. I’ll lend you this!” (laughs) The thing’s a boat! It’s huge and it weighs a ton but I hauled it into the room and plugged it in and went, “I think I can make a record off this!” 

HIP THERAPY MUSIC: So a few more traditional questions. You are so deeply immersed in music. Do you consciously pursue new music, or is it just part of your life and it just comes to you? What’s your best source for finding new stuff? 

CHIP KINMAN: YouTube. I’ll watch videos. Someone had mentioned the top electronic dance song. I said, “Oh, let me see what that’s all about.” I listened to it. And, you know, I wasn’t too impressed. I was hoping it would be more adventurous.

I checked it out, listened to it. A couple of SoundCloud rappers… just because I think it’s cool these people made these records in their bedroom and sold a few million of them. And so I listen to a little bit of that. I wouldn’t try to do something like that. I’m a 65 year old man, so I’m not gonna do mumble rap or anything, I’m not gonna get anywhere near that, but I find it kind of fascinating. 

HIP THERAPY MUSIC: So who is on the cusp right now? Is there a band, a musician, an act out there right now that you feel is right on the cusp?

CHIP KINMAN: Besides myself? 

HIP THERAPY MUSIC: (Laugh) Of course!

CHIP KINMAN: Because I always think I’m on the cusp. At least I better be, otherwise, I’m going to hang it up. There is a band who… who was it? Wet Leg. They’re a girl punk-rock band. 

HIP THERAPY MUSIC: Love their stuff. They just opened for someone at the Hollywood Bowl. 

CHIP KINMAN: I think Martin Wong, in one of his posts, he’s going on about the Linda Linda’s. And then he mentioned Wet Leg. And so I went, “Wet Leg. What the hell is that?” So I went to YouTube and found Wet Leg and I went wow, that’s pretty fucking cool. 

HIP THERAPY MUSIC: Yeah, pretty edgy stuff. I like them quite a bit. 

POP-UP DISRUPTION: Chip Kinman works his synths at full volume in the parking lot of the electronic music confab at the Burbank Marriott Convention Center in October of 2022, just moments before hotel security shut him down. It was not, however, his first encounter with being shut down.

CHIP KINMAN: I just thought it was neat and inventive and they weren’t conforming to anything. I just thought it was terrific. That’s about the first thing that pops into my head. 

HIP THERAPY MUSIC: I’m looking at the scene of what new music is out there. I’m quietly noticing, and I’m trying desperately hard not to be sexist in saying this, but there are a lot of great female rock acts out there. 

CHIP KINMAN: Yeah, there’s a whole bunch right now. I’m not really sure what that’s about, but yeah.

HIP THERAPY MUSIC: The whole riot grrrrl thing at the end of the 90s kind of went away, but I think it was just pulling back, reasserting itself, and now it seems to be emerging with a whole new generation of literally teenage girls who are playing some pretty badass rock and roll guitars.

CHIP KINMAN: Yeah, it’s not made for me, they’re not making records for 65 year old white guys but that’s okay. I’m enough of a musician and, I’ll say it even though it makes me feel weird, “an artist,”  that I can appreciate something even though it’s really not for me. Even though I might never listen to it again. But there it is.

You know what I’ve been listening to every day? It’s kind of old, but every day I put it on because I can’t believe just how it happened: Beethoven’s Ninth. Every. Single. Day. I’ve been listening to that and going how the hell did he write that? I mean, forget the deaf thing, how did he write that?!?

It’s absolutely mind blowing, absolutely. It’s like there’s chords at the top of the first movement. Wow. Of course, it’s rightfully recognized as such, but it still fills me with love for humanity and people. I know that’s kind of the theme of the symphony, but just the sheer brilliance of it just makes me think there’s hope for people. 

“A song like Proud Mary, as simple as it is, how easy would it be for that to be a pile of shit instead of a really great song?”

— Chip Kinman

HIP THERAPY MUSIC: Well, to take that point and make it utterly ridiculous, we were just talking about new music that you like, what established bands, maybe somebody you came up with through the ranks with – no pun intended — do you think deserves a spotlight? Who do you think is vastly underappreciated? Who deserves some sunshine? 

CHIP KINMAN: Gosh, I’ll tell you something that blew me away. I watched that Creedence Clearwater Revival documentary. I grew up with Creedence and I always liked them and thought it was good swamp rock, and that’s pretty cool.

And I’m watching their live stuff, where they’re playing in London, and it’s SO simple, and they sound like Creedence, and they’re  really great. I was thinking this is like the Blasters but with better songs – not to take anything away from the Blasters! But it’s so great, you know, and they delivered it SO WELL.

They weren’t anything to look at, but that kind of blew me away. So I guess it’s hard to call a band that’s had so many hits and that everybody knows, at least of our generation, but I think Creedence might be a little underappreciated. They’re not as revered as say, like The Band or something like that. But Creedence is just good shit. And they played it SO WELL.

HIP THERAPY MUSIC: It was simple music, or it was deceptively simple. I’m convinced that stuff was really hard to play. And John Fogerty would certainly maintain that it was hard to play. 

CHIP KINMAN: Well of course it is! I mean, a song like “Proud Mary,” as simple as it is, how easy would it be for that to be a pile of shit instead of a really great song?

Now, another band I hold high… okay… I love the Beatles. I think the Beatles are great. Someone like Paul McCartney? “Mull of Kintyre?” He wrote another “Danny Boy!” Who does that? Who writes a song as good as “Danny Boy?”

But as much as I revere that band, I’ll tell you the band that’s probably my all time favorite, and only for the first couple records, is the Ramones. I mean, that was unprecedented. It was ballsy, and it was great, and it was revolutionary. And in fact, when people ask me about my favorite guitar players, it’s Johnny Ramone. They’re unbelievably good, unbelievably good. 

HIP THERAPY MUSIC: And talk about a band that launched 1000 other bands. 

CHIP KINMAN: As much as I love Never Mind the Bollocks, as much as I love the New York Dolls, or the Velvet Underground – which is sounding a little quaint to me these days but that’s a whole other story – but the Ramones, that first album. I remember, when it came out, I read about the Ramones in Roxy Magazine – Lisa Robinson’s magazine.

Tony and I would read about them and saw pictures of them for two years. You know, Ramones ride the subway. The Ramones go to Manny’s. The Ramones do this. Ramones do that. But I had no idea what they sounded like.

When the record came out, Tony and I sat down and we put it on. We listen to “Blitzkrieg Bop.” Well? Okay, uhh…cool. Next song started. Um…okay? Third song. Wait a minute. So then I skipped to the beginning of each song and went… uh, I’m not so sure about this. I had bought the record. Tony looked at me and said, “You live with this record for 24 hours. If you don’t think it’s the greatest album ever made, I’ll buy it from you tomorrow.” I called him up the next day. “It’s the greatest album ever made!”

HIP THERAPY MUSIC: Both of your brothers had such great ears. That’s wonderful.

CHIP KINMAN: Yeah, they did. And Tony, his musical ear was really something. That’s where the title of our compilation record on Omnivore Records, Sounds Like Music, comes from.

We were in Cowboy Nation, and we were rehearsing one of our songs. I thought I played it pretty good. You know, it’s not easy being in a band with Tony. And at the end of the song, I said, “Hey, Tony, I thought that was good!” He said, “Yeah, Chip, that was good. But next time, make it sound like music.” Oh, my god, wow! “You know, you played the chords, you were in time and everything. Now, make it sound like music.” “Okay, man, you’re, well… Okay. Count it off.” (Laughs)

HIP THERAPY MUSIC: Ouch! No wonder those words stuck in your memory! Well, thanks for your time, and to wrap things up, here’s the traditional question: what’s next for you? You’ve got the Outlaw Country Cruise coming up, and you were talking about the next album you want to make. Anything beyond that? 

CHIP KINMAN: Well, I’m super focused on the cruise because I’ve been asked to sing some songs and I haven’t sung in a while, and I have a bit of a medical condition that inhibits my singing a little bit. So I’ve been really working on that, because I don’t want to embarrass myself, and frankly, I’d like to get asked back to play on the cruise. So there’s that, and, you know, digging deep inside for my new album. But I guess, like every other old, rapidly aging punk rocker, I’m gonna write a book.

HIP THERAPY MUSIC: I bet you’ve got some stories! 

CHIP KINMAN: I do, and I’m being encouraged by Tom DeSavia, who worked on the John Doe books. 

HIP THERAPY MUSIC: Yeah, I’ve read both of those.

CHIP KINMAN: And he’s kind of helping me out. And I want to learn Spanish, That’s my future, God willing. 

HIP THERAPY MUSIC: Well, I personally hope the book comes to fruition. The Doe books were great, lots of stuff I didn’t know. And your take on the scene, you were on it about the same time that X was coming up. So it’s like a Kurosawa film: same stuff but from an entirely different point of view,

CHIP KINMAN: Exactly, exactly. Kid Congo just wrote me and told me that in his book… have you read his book? 

HIP THERAPY MUSIC: No, not yet. 

CHIP KINMAN: He’s going to send me a copy. We had an experience together. I won’t tell you what it is. It has to do with an avalanche that we were caught in and he wrote me and said, “Oh yeah, I tell the avalanche story in my book.” And I’m going, “Oh, I was gonna use that one in MY book!” You know what? It’s good. It’ll be good to be in both books because it was quite an experience. I can barely remember what his take was on the whole thing. 

HIP THERAPY MUSIC: Thank you Chip — I appreciate your time so much! Enjoy the cruise!

CHIP KINMAN: No problem!

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Thanks to Chip for his time and generosity of spirit! We wish him well on Mojo’s cruise, with the next electronic music album, and with the book project (as well as with learning Spanish!). Check out our previous Chip Kinman articles: Ford Madox Ford’s Meaningful History, Chip Kinman on Breaking Rules and Musical Evolution (Pt. 1), and Chip Kinman: Electronic Music and Roy Rogers vs. John Ford (Pt. 2).

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Close your eyes. Open your mind. Trust your ears.